ROBYN KNOPER : Dialog With The Curator

ROBYN: ...I am beginning a new journey, learning to be the curator here in the Lions & Rabbits space. I’m excited to get into this role, choosing different artworks that I personally connect with, figuring out what kind of work thrives here, and what other people are going to be interested in. Because this space is used for weddings, I also need to think about what will look good in the background of photos and lots of things I didn’t have to think about when I was just creating my own art. I'm excited to get into the behind-the-scenes work of a gallery, and this was a way for me to make my own way here. 

JEFF: I heard you've been tasked with transforming the whole curating program here, growing it into something greater. What is your vision for the next year for the RO$EBUD Curating program here?

ROBYN: We are expanding beyond the walls of the Plainfield gallery, seeking out businesses, coffee shops, bars, or whatever, and to get on a rotation schedule so that people's artwork can be shown around in different neighborhoods. With the gallery, and everywhere, being closed during Covid, it's been hard to bring people in and sell the pieces that are up on the wall, and so now we have a new opportunity to get more artwork seen and purchased - more opportunities for people to make connections with each other. 

JEFF: Connecting. That word comes up in conversation a lot around here. In your role as curator, what connections are you aiming to form? 

ROBYN: I'm trying to connect artists to an experience that they may not have had in the past, like showing in a gallery. Some of the artists we work with are just starting out. Some of the artists are more well known. We have a diverse combination of artists here, so when we have a show opening, when we put new artwork on the walls here, or any exhibition we have here, hopefully, all those artists will get to mix and mingle and discuss their lives and their experiences. And then also, outside of the gallery here, connecting with different businesses to see what artwork they are looking for, or maybe they want commissioned pieces - being able to help people get the art they connect with on their walls, that’s what I’m excited about.

JEFF: I brought a new painting of mine in here a few weeks ago, so speaking for myself personally, but also for other artists that have artwork here, or want to hang something: what should we know about your role as a curator? How can we help you? What should we be thinking about when we're wanting to hang our art on your walls? How can we grow together? 

ROBYN: Have a grouping of artworks ready to go, ready to exhibit and sell, not just one piece. That’s always amazing and helpful, for me and for the artist. I also want to put up people's artist statements as well, alongside their pieces, to see what the creator thinks about it, what they were feeling, or just get the context that you couldn’t otherwise see. 

JEFF: What makes a good artist statement, compared to a less interesting one? What do you like to read?

ROBYN: For me, I like two different - two very polar opposite kinds of artist statements. I like when it conveys a big idea, the theme of the piece, but I also like when they explain the process they use, like for example, when someone is having anxious feelings or they're hurting in some way, and then they use their painting to help themselves, or a woodcut carving, ‘I was so frustrated, but I could get all of my anger out by carving this piece, and this is what came of it.’ After meeting some of the artists that we have up on the wall here and getting to know them as a person, I think to myself, ‘I wish I had known about your artist statement for the piece that you have on the wall or what you're going through in your life or what this whole thing is about.’ You’re a writer too, you do a lot of writing, so are you drawn to the artist statement first or the image first? 

JEFF: I spend a lot of time walking around museums and galleries. It's always the painting itself that catches my eye from across the room. Not every painting. If there's a room full of paintings, often there’ll be just one in there that really grabs me. It's like a magnet that pulls me toward it. I couldn't walk away even if I wanted to. Not all art can do that, but the ones that do, they have some kind of gravitational power - you can really feel that pull as you get nearer. Then, after I’m drawn closer, I read their name, and whatever information is provided. But it's always the painting itself that brings me in, and I will probably only read about it if the image holds my attention. How I can manufacture that magnetism, I wonder? There seems to be some artists that understand that. Their work consistently has that mysterious quality. I don't know. 

ROBYN: Do you think that magnetism is personal - different for each person based on their interests?

JEFF: To some extent maybe. But the museum is hanging them prominently. Clearly, there are other people recognizing these artworks too. They’ve been written about in the history books. I'm not the first person to discover them and realize that they're great. Many other people have already acknowledged the quality of these artworks I’m talking about. But is it universal? I don't know. Some people like different things. What about natural experiences, like a newborn baby or a puppy, a sunset or a starry night? Is that subjective? Is there anyone who denies the beauty of those wonders? I’m not sure, maybe there is something universal about it. How do you feel about that mystery? Are there objective universals in what makes art beautiful? Or is it all subjective and in the eye of the beholder?

ROBYN: I don’t know, but I think those types of challenging questions are what drive creativity forward. When artists explore that question, I think it skyrockets their ability and helps them break barriers, have new views on things, and really connect with people in a deep way.

JEFF: What kind of characteristics do you think make something beautiful? The painter, William Hogarth, for example, analyzed beauty in terms of six elements: fitness, variety, unity, distinctness, intricacy, and magnitude. Or in Japanese aesthetics, there is a model called Wabi-Sabi, which prioritizes qualities like impermanence, imperfection, asymmetry, intimacy, elegance, serenity. And there are many other models too. Do you think there exists some sort of definite criteria like that? Is there a checklist that an artist can use to make something beautiful?

ROBYN: I don’t think so, because everyone sees things through their own eyes and experiences. I think art is most meaningful when people have created something from their heart and when they do that, it can sometimes connect with another person’s heart, but not always.

JEFF: I read a book recently called ‘Styles Of Organizing’. The author, Gibson Burrell, proposed a three-dimensional model of taste - three different spectrums that everyone falls on, like an x, y, z, axis system. Natural and anatural. Some people are on one end of the spectrum, preferring nature, while other people prefer technology and industry. Some people are somewhere in the middle. Then there’s sedimentism and rupturism, which is not exactly conservative or liberal. It's a little bit different than that. It's about building on the past, like layers of sediment or maybe you're trying to disrupt and change - adding on top of pre-existing traditions or maybe you prefer deconstructing and dismantling traditions. The third dimension is rationality and sensibility - logical thinking or emotional feeling, what mode you tend to rely on and enjoy, thought-provoking pieces or visceral emotions, or are you somewhere in the middle. I thought that was an interesting way of modeling an individual’s taste. Something that’s not right or wrong. Everyone has their own place, different patterns and styles they’re attracted to. I like that people are trying to measure and model these things, even if none of the models are perfectly true. Each viewer can find something that appeals to their taste, and each artist can search for their own unique style based on their interests.

ROBYN: And that's a search that the artist can do with each piece. Then, even if they start with a similar idea, they’ll get to a different endpoint, whether they come from the same direction or if they take a different path. That's always interesting to learn and see - how each person came to the conclusions that they did about the artwork. That's what I learned before, when I was working at the art museum, that people have very different opinions but the majority of people can appreciate any type of artwork, even if it's not their forte.

JEFF: People have very different opinions about their likes and dislikes, but also about artists themselves and art in general. Everyone defines the word ‘artist’ in a different way. And when you’re creating in public or presenting your work to people, it’s interesting to hear what stereotypes each viewer brings into it. Complete strangers will see you - all they know about you is that you’re painting something, yet they already have this preconception of who you are and what you are doing.

ROBYN: I painted something for our storm drain project this summer. Two drains right next to each other. I made a crab, some jellyfish, and some different water creatures, and then there's different trash elements like a crushed pop can, a cigarette, some straws - the common things that end up being littered and flushed out into the river through the drains. When people came and talked to me, I'd get to explain why we're doing it: ‘don't litter, because the storm drains go right out into our waterways!’ I get a lot of people that are shocked I am an artist because I don't have blue hair or tattoos, I think that’s funny. But I think that in general, people are becoming more supportive of the arts and the stereotypes are getting better. Larger businesses are putting more resources into some type of creative budget. Live painting - painting in front of people - it’s very intimidating. Some businesses are bringing that in as an event, or to entertain during any event. I've heard of people doing live paintings during a wedding, painting the scene. I haven't seen that in action yet but I feel like they would get a ton of responses while they were doing it. And it's a lot of pressure to be vulnerable like that in someone’s space on their big day. People don't always understand creatives. But when creators understand each other, that's when we really thrive.

JEFF: What do you view as the overall purpose of being an artist? Every community has their creator types. Why does every community have creative artists? What's our role in our community? What are we actually supposed to be doing, or trying to do? What's our job description? 

ROBYN: In my opinion, I think that being an artist means helping other people think outside the box. A lot of people have a very formal, conventional outlook on life. Every thought process has its place, but to bring creativity into it and to see the situation with a whole different outlook - that’s why we have to be here. 

JEFF: Thinking outside of the box, discovering new insights, innovating, how do we actually do that? How can epiphanies be produced through art? How does someone think outside the box and how does somebody teach others to think outside the box? Is that something that has a method to it? 

ROBYN: I think that a creative team helps. Bouncing ideas off of each other. Everyone will be looking at the same situation, but if you communicate, you’ll create different perspectives and responses to try solving the problem. That collaborative experience is what gets people to think outside of their own ideas - their own biases - of what they have about the project.

JEFF: And you have to actually go looking for those insights. They're not gonna happen accidentally. You have to actively explore the topic from different angles, either on your own or with others. You won’t find those solutions if you’re not searching for them.

ROBYN: Creative writing, I think is another really good way to open that up. Even just mindless free-writing, putting down all of your thoughts, empty everything out. I'm more of a visual person, but when you see it written down, you may have different thoughts about it or you might have a revelation about why you think about it this way. Getting your brain unstuck when you’ve been going over and over an idea in the same way, that’s what it comes down to.

JEFF: Tell me more about the collaborations you’ve worked on with groups of artists. You helped with the storm drains initiative, what else?

ROBYN: Well, I went to GVSU with Jasmine Bruce. We met in freshman year, in our foundation classes, and there was a group of us that really stuck together. I always knew that I wanted to be part of a small, connected group that helped artists thrive. So that's what led me here. She started working at Lions & Rabbits, and she asked me to help her on a few of her projects, like the Women's Way project we did. I helped her with the background of her mural, then she did all the details because she's amazing. Then there was an internship here that I got into, to help her run the public art programs. I didn’t paint any of the barricade murals, but the three of us, you, me, and Jasmine, we painted and stenciled the backsides of the barricades. And I helped to organize all those, mixing the paint, communicating with the artists and businesses. I did most of the artist communication for the storm drain project too, making sure the artists let photographers know when they were going to be out so we can get action shots, little things like that. 

JEFF: What did that internship and those group projects help you learn? What insights can you share?

ROBYN: I think it's helpful to watch other people go through these things. That's another great thing about communities. I watched other people succeed, but I also watched other people struggle and take a step back. You can help them and talk to them and hopefully figure it out for both them and yourself - help move forward together. You can learn from their mistakes, and you learn to look at yourself differently, too. I think a lot of creatives can get stuck, and get in their own way. We need to re-create ourselves sometimes, discover new thoughts on who we are and what we’re doing. When people are afraid to change their opinions, it’s tricky to navigate how you will grow into yourself. As we’re all re-engaging with the public after this last year and a half, it’s time to re-examine ourselves.

JEFF: I see the isolation and social distancing of the past year as a great opportunity for transformation. Going back out into public - that re-emergence is the perfect time for reinvention. We were separated from each other. We all experienced the same situation in our own unique ways, but I think it was transformative for all of us. Now that we're coming back, we have a chance to tell a different story than we could before about who we are and what we care about. There is this definite before and after period - before Covid, after Covid - that delineation creates an opportunity to change. I was that. Now, I am this. Tomorrow, I will be that. We need those solid distinctions. We need those separations from our community sometimes. Entering into a new community or returning back to your community, that’s a great time to find a new narrative to tell and become somebody better. 

ROBYN: When you said, ‘I was that. Today, I am this and I will be that.’ Do you think it's bad to try and predict what you will be? Do you feel like you're boxing yourself in?

JEFF: I’ve always found it helpful and motivating to have aspirations. There needs to be a reaching for something - striving, yearning, seeking. That doesn't mean attaining. But we must always be searching, even if we don't ever find ourselves. There should always be exploration and discovery of ourselves. It's helpful for me to think in terms of ‘possibility’ more than ‘certainty’. I don’t say, ‘this is who I will be, for sure,’ but rather, ‘here are the options of who I might become,’ and ‘these are the paths I don’t want to take.‘ This is what’s possible for me,’ and ‘what outcomes would I prefer?’ Even if I don't land exactly where I aimed - and I never do, something unusual usually happens. But I know it's helpful to contemplate - contemplate with discipline, not just wondering, daydreaming, but actually critically thinking, and planning what the different outcomes of my actions will be in the future, where I want to go, and what steps will get me there. Even though my plans will always fall apart. Something always goes wrong. Things never go according to plan - that seems to be one of those universal laws of reality.

ROBYN: We have to be able to adapt, and be flexible. You can plan all you want and try to shape who you are but eventually, as an artist, the act of creating should lead you to where you should be.

JEFF: Absolutely. And can change who we are with each creative act, and we can let go and detach from the things we identify with. Sometimes, the things we hold close to our hearts are the things we have to let go of in order to grow stronger, reach farther, and get where we need to go, be who we need to be. Being artists, I feel we have a freedom to reinvent ourselves, and innovate new identities for ourselves in a way that other people don’t. We can re-create ourselves through recreation. We can think outside our own boxes, transcend our labels, break free from our pasts and try something new every day. 

ROBYN: That's a good way to put it. I feel that. Your style and processes will change, and this may lead to conflict within yourself, but, I think it’s really important to coax yourself to have those new discussions. We may feel growing pains but the result will eventually be new growth. Change is inevitable and we have to learn to welcome it - learn to become someone new.

JEFF: So who will you be? What do you see for your future?

ROBYN: I like it around here at Lions & Rabbits. I plan on sticking around. There's a really great artistic community in Grand Rapids and it’s great to connect with all the different pockets of the artist community through these big events that we do. We have some intergenerational projects coming up next summer, so that'll be really cool to see people of all ages come out and have the accessibility to paint with each other as a community, learning from each other. This is really where I want to be. When Jasmine and I were in college, we would talk about where we wanted to go and what we want to do. And now we're here, working together, and this is it. This is what we wanted to do. We wanted to be working in the arts. We wanted to be creators and help other creatives. And now that I’m settling into this curatorial position, it’s great to learn what the whole system is around me within the Grand Rapids area, and to see where I fit into the goals for the city’s development. But also, just becoming acquainted with everyone around me, getting to know all the artists, connecting with them, learning from them. I love all the conversations we get to have around here.

JEFF: What can we do to create more opportunities for conversation, for connection?

ROBYN: Things like the intergenerational program, that is really going to help foster these kinds of conversations. And other events and Artist’s Markets coming up will be very helpful for growing and nurturing these kinds of relationships going forward. Communicating with each other through these creative projects allows us to dig down and really cultivate the ideas that will get us to the outcomes that we all want - that the community needs. It will be great to have a bigger curating program going, filling this space and the whole community with interesting art, and to have more artists selling their pieces, forwarding their careers. We all need to do everything we can to connect with each other and get close to one another - even if it’s just one little step...